Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The protec evolution continues. Let's check it out.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Here we go.
[00:00:06] Speaker C: Sir. I will live with perseverance in the spirit of taekwondo, courtesy for fellow students, integrity within myself, and to become a black belt leader.
Welcome to the AtA Nation podcast, ladies.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: And gentlemen, students, instructors, masters, and parents of AtA nation.
[00:00:32] Speaker D: Welcome back.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: This is episode 105 of the ATA Nation Podcast, and I am your host, senior master Zach Hayden. It is a privilege and a joy to be back with you today on this Valentine's Day. Hopefully you're enjoying yourself. I know we all share a love for Songwam Taekwondo. Now, in today's episode, we are going to have an interview with Chief Master Kaminsky, all about the evolution of the black belt pro tech weapons.
You may have been seeing some updates, some new things with those, and we wanted to talk about it with him and the stuff going on at fall or, excuse me, at spring national. So let's get started.
[00:01:14] Speaker C: Special guest interview.
[00:01:23] Speaker E: And I am super excited to have with us today Chief Master Kaminsky talking all things protech and what all dogs do is start barking when people are on phone calls or interviews.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: It's classic. It has to happen that way.
Yes.
[00:01:43] Speaker D: So we got a little puppy here, and not little. He's 84 pounds.
[00:01:48] Speaker E: Yeah, I've seen pictures. He's not little.
[00:01:51] Speaker D: He's not little. And he thinks he's little, but he's not little.
[00:01:55] Speaker E: Well, that's funny. Well, the rollout.
[00:02:02] Speaker D: I can put him in his parade. He'll be quiet.
[00:02:06] Speaker E: We're good. I think, people, we're all animal lovers out there.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Okay, sounds good.
[00:02:16] Speaker E: The color belt weapons curriculum rolled out fantastically. I mean, it's just been such a neat thing to see across all of ATA, seeing that competition now with the color belts, I think it'd be interesting to see if the numbers of competition for color belts weapons have gone up, because I feel like it has. And now you guys have started embarking on updating and improving the black belt weapons forms. Tell us a little bit about why updates and kind of what the thought.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Process behind that is.
[00:02:48] Speaker D: Sure. Absolutely. And it's been quite the process going from the color belts, kind of reengineering the color belt forms, taking the black belt forms, and kind of figuring out what can we do for color belt forms to prepare them for the black belt forms. Then once we did that, we started taking a look at the black belt forms and saying, what makes sense here? Some of these forms, if you think back, the forms were originally designed not for competition, but for curriculum. So when you were first degree you had to do shinjun. You had to do these group of weapons before you could rank test for second degree, and then the same with second, third, all the belt ranks. And then at one point, they said, okay, let's take these weapon forms, and let's add them into competition. But not all the weapon forms fit into the ring. So some of them will go out of the ring. Some of them are longer than each other.
They don't stay on the song star. They don't start in the middle of the ring and end in the finish in the middle of the ring, that sort of thing. And so we really started to take a look at, are there ways that.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: We can tweak the forms to keep.
[00:03:51] Speaker D: The integrity of the forms, but also just make slight improvements to the forms to make sure that the competitors can stay in the ring, that everybody's safe, the competitors are safe, the spectators are safe, the judges are safe, and also bring that standardization across the weapon forms so that we have, oh, well, I learned it this way, and I learned it this way, and this is the way we do it here. No, there's one way. Not that any of those other ways were better than each other, but we have to pick a way, and this is the way that we want to see them performed.
[00:04:28] Speaker E: And that makes a lot of sense in today's. We've got technology. You guys are filming these, breaking down the pieces. Everyone has access if they go to sign in on their AtA martial arts account, to be able to see these. I love the idea of getting things to fit in the ring. And, like, you're right. People don't realize that these weren't designed for tournaments. But then you go and do single.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Songs, bong, you have to ask to.
[00:04:56] Speaker E: Readjust every single time. And I'm like, as a judge, you're just like, stand back there. You're fine.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: We know what's going on, right?
[00:05:05] Speaker D: And that's why we took a look at them and said, okay, what can we do to fix these? And really, that single song, bong form that you brought up, all the techniques are in there, all the combinations. Nothing's changed in that form except for footwork. So we added a little bit of hand and foot timing on some of the moves, which actually slows the form down. So it's not just a speed race that we would typically see of, and they would just breeze right through it. Now it's like, you got to step forward and do that strike and then step back and do another strike. So it just added a little bit of footwork, hand and foot timing.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: We're able to start and end in.
[00:05:39] Speaker D: The middle of the ring. No permission to adjust anymore. And the form is still the form. It's still the same combination. So judging wise, it should be very easy to judge. You're still judging the techniques, and there's.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Just a couple of little slight changes in your footwork. Yeah.
[00:05:56] Speaker E: I love the new single song jabong, or the 2.0, the updates. I think it makes the form feel more combative. It feels like a weapon. Now where before single songs, bong could look very acrobatic, almost like rhythmic gymnastics. I mean, it was just kind of this thing sometimes, and it was a weapon I loved. I competed with it in top four back then.
But I think these new combative, like you said, it's all there, but making it look like a weapon a little bit more, making the footwork a little tougher. And this is not new for Protec, right?
[00:06:34] Speaker B: I mean, many of us remember there.
[00:06:36] Speaker E: Was a 360 handspin with an extra twist in the single songs bonk form.
There was something else I remember when I learned it originally, and I can't.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Remember what it was that was different about it.
Exactly.
[00:06:49] Speaker D: So these forms have been evolving since their origination. Like, when we first started coming out with them, they've all had slight little changes to them and adjustments. It's just like your cell phone. We're not on the first one. We're on what iPhone are we up to now?
These are crazy. So same kind of thing. Just taking a look at things and monitoring and adjusting. Taking a look at different things to try to improve them. And you're right, it's 100%. We're trying to make them more competitive. Like, why are we doing some of these moves? What's the purpose of this? We're not twirling the weapon around. It's not a baton or anything like that. It is a weapon, and it should look like that you're in a battle, and if you use these weapons, that you should be able to defend yourself. And when we're judging, that's one thing I like to look at. Like, if I stand there and somebody hits me with that technique, am I in trouble? Is that going to really do some heavy damage, or is it just like boom, boom, boom and just twirling it around? It's like that doesn't do anything. Yes, sir.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: That's been the process.
[00:07:51] Speaker D: And we got some more coming up at fall nationals.
[00:07:55] Speaker E: Yeah, you've got spring national. We're on spring. We've got at spring national.
Yeah, I saw the sun the last two days here, which I was pretty excited about. We don't usually see that this time of year.
We've got Osung Doe, which I'm really excited about because that one definitely needs some adjustments.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:08:19] Speaker E: It's very repetitive and it starts way off to the side, or you do the diagonal thing.
What other weapons are at fall or, excuse me, at spring nationals this year.
[00:08:31] Speaker D: We'Re going to do Osongdo, we're going to do double Bumangi and also the Jeepongi. Okay, so those are the three that we're rolling out, launching at spring nationals.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Very good.
[00:08:43] Speaker E: And I was told that recordings of those will happen spring nationals, so that the instructors teaching them kind of can get some, what are the commonly asked questions that are happening in person and then address those with the video, is that right?
[00:08:59] Speaker D: That's correct. And we kind of did that. We realized that at the fall nationals. So because of worlds and fall nationals kind of being close and also the Pan Am championships, it was very difficult to get the school owners together and myself, because I was at the Pan Am championships, to get them filmed and out before fall nationals and then filming them after fall nationals, we realized that what are the common questions? What are people struggling with? What can I do a better job explaining into the videos to make sure that we're covering people's concerns or people's questions.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: And so we felt like getting that.
[00:09:40] Speaker D: Feedback from teaching a group of people was important. So we're going to follow that here.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: For the spring Nationals as well.
[00:09:49] Speaker D: So that way we can make sure.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: We cover any concerns, questions, what people.
[00:09:55] Speaker D: Struggle the most with in the weapon form, and we can really try to outline and detail all those concerns or questions in those videos.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: That makes sense.
[00:10:04] Speaker E: I think that's probably a smart plan.
Get the question that you're like, oh, I didn't think of that, and that's a good question. And then be able to address that so that people know this isn't just you sitting and going through these. There's a team for each weapon, and these are the people who are then going out and teaching them in the different seminars at worlds and nationals. And then I'm sure as we continue, there'll be more seminars as we spread this across ha nation.
[00:10:33] Speaker D: That's correct. So I've been kind of the national protech weapons director, and then we kind of put teams under each of the weapons where we have a group of two to three people, and that it's.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: A collective group so I have ideas.
[00:10:50] Speaker D: And thoughts on how to change the weapon forms to make them work. We have team meetings, and then we work together. I present ideas, they present ideas.
We see what works. Sometimes we come up with ideas and.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: We say, okay, sit on that for a while.
[00:11:07] Speaker D: I'll see you next week. And then it goes off into another direction. Or it's like, no, that didn't work at all. I tried it on my leadership team, and they struggled with it. So there is a lot of thought and a lot of process.
It's not just me. It's a whole collective team with headquarters and the teams that are with each weapon.
And then from there, we get things finalized and we work on them, practice them, and then kind of start writing it out and going from there. So a few couple changes to them. Double bamaya.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: I'm super excited about just that.
[00:11:52] Speaker D: Form does not stay in the ring. It's not on the song at all. So if you think about that first, very first line, the first five count, we kind of go off at an angle. What if we just did that straight to the left side heading towards north, and then you turn and then do the five count heading towards the south? And now when we go straight ahead, before you ran out of space on the 123-12-3123 and you kind of tap danced in place, what if we had enough room to take three full steps and go forward with those three counts?
[00:12:24] Speaker E: Oh, that'd be cool, because that tap dance step is not super cool.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Looking for the average martial artist?
[00:12:31] Speaker D: No, sir. Not at all. So that's like a simple little change like that. It's still the form, it's still the combinations. It's just change the direction, change the direction. So the footwork is going to change a little bit, but now when we go forward, we have plenty of room to go forward. That puts us on the diagonal line going across, and there's just a couple of small changes.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: And back to the commonality of the.
[00:12:57] Speaker D: Techniques between the color belts to the black belts and then seeing the different versions, because, for instance, that double bumangi form had. Grandmaster Ollemyer was teaching that originally. Then there were other people, there were two or three other people that taught it after him. So they all kind of put their own little flavor twist onto different things or different terms or call it one combination or this combination, but we just want to make it all the same so that whether I teach it or you teach it or your staff teaches.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: It, it's the same terms, it's the.
[00:13:29] Speaker D: Same counts, and then when you go to singular Songjbong, it's the same terms from weapon to weapon to weapon. So it's very easy for your staff and your students to understand.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:13:42] Speaker E: Well, that's cool. I'm excited about it. I love the commonality. Just making everything work together is a lot of fun. Just to help our students get better. We've got these colored belt weapons now, these black belt weapons, and then videos of everything. I know it's probably a huge thing to tackle, but when you guys are done with these, are we going to have written versions like we have written.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Versions of the color belt ones? I'm already on it, sir.
[00:14:11] Speaker D: They're already in the process. And once again, it's a team. So I refer back to these team members because they're the experts at that weapons.
I've been at all the protec camps back in Panama City and back in all the. I haven't missed any of those. So I think that's why I have a passion for it. But I stick to my weapon is the.
And I'm very. I can do all the weapons, but I need these team members. They're the ones that are teaching it. They're the ones that are going to execute it. They're the ones that are going to perform it. So I went back to each of those team members, and that's why it's a great team, because some people have different rules on that team. Some people are super dynamic instructors, some are really dynamic that can really demonstrate that weapon form, and other people can really make sure they take good notes and write up the forms and do different things like that.
So that's been our process is once.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: We figure out what are the tweaks.
[00:15:10] Speaker D: To the forms, like that double bumongy form, instead of going to the angle, we might go to the side. There's a couple of other little twists.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Because.
[00:15:20] Speaker D: Once you do that on the.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: Second half, we're facing forward and we.
[00:15:26] Speaker D: Have to turn to the back to do the number.
So you're going to see one of the color belt moves introduced into the black belt form. So the so high lay, so that way we can tie them together because that's going to get us going towards the back.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: The other thing that doing those sideways.
[00:15:42] Speaker D: It takes out those awkward spins. Once you repeat that number five count.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:15:47] Speaker D: So we're not going to turn over whatever it was, more than 270 degrees.
[00:15:52] Speaker E: Or the big winner.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Yes, sir. Crazy spin. But once we get the team together.
[00:15:58] Speaker D: And we introduce ideas, we talk about it, we figure it out. Then we start writing it, and it's very rough draft writing everything out. And then from there, I've been taking all the weapon forms and trying to streamline them and making them the same terms. And then recently, I got a lot of help from Master Kinashita. He was the one with the long range jongbong. He's super organized, very thorough.
And then he's been taking what I gave him and kind of cleaning it up and making them look like the.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: Song on color belt form.
[00:16:34] Speaker E: Like the color belt form sheets.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Awesome.
[00:16:38] Speaker D: So we're going to have a. Just to give you a preview, there'll be a glossary of different techniques. Then there'll kind of be a long version written, and there'll be a short version written. And we're even going to put the videos that correspond to the techniques. So that way.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:16:55] Speaker D: If you're reading it and you're like.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Wait a minute, I still can't figure out this written.
[00:17:01] Speaker D: It's video number three. And then boom, you can go click.
And Master Canachita actually linked it to the sheet. So if you pull up the digital form, you'd actually be able to click on that video, and it would take you to the video three. Now, I'm not sure if we're going to do that for that's what we've been doing just behind the. Yes, sir.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: This drafting process.
[00:17:23] Speaker D: But you'll at least know this is video clip number three, if you're having.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: Trouble with that, and then you can.
[00:17:30] Speaker E: Go to that and watch it and whatnot.
[00:17:31] Speaker D: That's fantastic.
[00:17:32] Speaker E: Oh, that'd be awesome.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Very cool. Because I know that it's been a.
[00:17:37] Speaker D: Lot of people between the team members kind of helping, adjusting, and then from.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: There, me kind of like trying to.
[00:17:44] Speaker D: Write it out or take what they do and try to make it common between weapon to weapon to weapon. And then it's been Master Kinoshita, who's been my second set of eyeballs and bringing up a lot of things, making sure, hey, well, we caught it like this in the color belt. We need to call it like that in the black belt. And then also putting it in a nice format for people to easily read, follow along, have the video connection. So it's going to take us a while because we pretty much just finished up single song jabong. And all the forms are mostly written out. They're not just familiarized, they're more very rough drafts.
[00:18:23] Speaker E: Well, writing weapons forms has always been harder than writing song on forms.
I know in the color belt ones. I'm not sure we have the same as, like, black belt ones. You've got the move by move, left, right, middle, high section, whatever. And then you have the turn 90 degree to southwest and put this with that. And that's just like, just a crazy process, I'm sure, to do any kind of that. And a weapon is not just your hands and feet. There's a whole different kind of terminology. And getting people to understand it in a written form. That's why video is so great. And it's so great that headquarters has been racking getting those videos filmed. You guys have been doing an amazing job. And then getting them all online really quickly and access to basically everybody. If you sign into atamarshallarts.com with your info, I think all the color belt forms and all the weapons black belt forms that are done so far are accessible by our students. So no reason not to know the information.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:19:25] Speaker D: That's 100% right. Not sure if our students have access to all the videos in terms of some pro tips or some instructional type things. So please, if you're out there and you just watch the form, there's a lot of little details in the form that sometimes people pick up. So for the school owners out there and your staff, I would highly recommend checking out those little broken down segments and the pro tips. The pro tips are good ways that.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: You might pick up some new ideas.
[00:19:55] Speaker D: How to teach your students with that weapon. Like, we've been trying to come up with ways of visually individual and on a target and with a partner, and active drills to do with your partner. So reading your opponent type things. And then that way, when you're doing the weapons, they are more combative. Because we have a target, we have a partner, and then the weapon, it's easy to teach because it looks more combative, it looks more dynamic.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:20:25] Speaker E: Yeah, no, it's awesome. The pro tips.
[00:20:27] Speaker D: Yes, you are right.
[00:20:28] Speaker E: Are only available to licensees, I believe is where that is. I'm not 100% sure on that. You guys can all log on and check. Last but not least is Sam Dan Bong. The only weapon that hasn't been done yet. And it's just going to be the Kaminsky special and just keep it the way it is.
[00:20:49] Speaker D: No, we're taking a look at that. So I have a team for Desant Bong as well. So my wife, she's a master candidate. Most of you know Master candidate Kaminsky.
She's part of the Samdambong team. My opinion, her weapon is probably better than mine.
Her Sam Demdin bong form is really good, and obviously it's the same way that I do it. And Master Haynes is also on the Samdambong team as well, and his is very good. He's a great martial artist and very intelligent, and he's helping with this project as well. So there could be a couple little.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Changes to that one as well.
[00:21:29] Speaker E: Cool. Last one, right? I think that's gumd. We haven't done Gumdo, but I know Chief Master Ramandes got kind of that spearheaded through the Gumdo program and then the other stuff that way as well.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:45] Speaker D: Gumdo level one for black belts is already on videos. That one's not written out, and I'm going to really need his help on writing.
[00:21:53] Speaker E: Yes, sir. That's definitely one of the last ones to get done.
[00:21:59] Speaker D: Yeah, I would just let him write that up and we'll go from there on that one. But yes, Samdambong is the last black belt weapon form that we need to teach and kind of put that one on the back burner just because I've been trying to get all these other ones out first. And with Chief Master Scouse, it's kind of like, let's pick the most popular weapons and kind of get these going.
And then we'll get into somdambong and then also at worlds.
Then we're looking at also doing the Osungdo color belt.
[00:22:34] Speaker E: Nice.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: That's exciting. Yeah, maybe I'll be in that one. But it's just between you and me.
[00:22:41] Speaker E: And a few listeners.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: If they don't.
[00:22:45] Speaker E: Tune in the podcast, they won't know.
[00:22:48] Speaker D: Now we put it out there.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: So she's on worlds.
[00:22:52] Speaker D: We need Osongdo color belt.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: Yes, sir. Cool.
[00:22:55] Speaker E: Well, sir, thank you for all your work and all of the protec teams, everybody who's gone into this process, I just think we have such an amazing protec kind of a revolution here with color belts, black belts, updates, videos, written stuff. I think it's a great time for Protec, and you guys have all done an amazing job.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: So thank you very much. Yeah, thank you, sir.
[00:23:19] Speaker D: And I just want to shout out to all the teams, they've been great. There's like no egos. It's been so easy to talk to people and everybody's been responsive, whether it's their ideas, my ideas, someone else's ideas.
I also show these out to a couple of other high ranks that aren't part of the teams, just to get their thoughts and feedback. And then we go back to the team, it's like, we just want to get it right. If we're going to make some changes, we're going to make changes and we just want to get it right.
The teams have been great training together, working together, teaching together. So I'm just so proud of everybody and what we've been able to accomplish so far. But we still got a little bit of work to do.
Excuse me. We just got to finish up these spring nationals with the double Jeepong Yi.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: And Osongdo, and then we'll hit the somdam bong at worlds. That's awesome.
[00:24:15] Speaker E: I can't know. And it goes to the students and instructors of AtA nation. You guys are all volunteering.
I know all these team members. They're not getting any special glory and all these things, they just are dedicated to Songnam taekwondo and helping everybody and lifting everybody up.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: So thank you again, sir. Yeah, exactly.
[00:24:40] Speaker D: And if the judges out there, don't stress about it, just watch the videos. Get yourself familiar with the different footwork and a few couple techniques that maybe we added in or took out. And if you're judging there, you're not sure. Just look to see if that weapon.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Looked like a weapon.
[00:24:59] Speaker D: Was it strong? Was it competitive?
Does it look like the stances? Just judge what you see and if you're not 100% sure, that way you're not getting hung up on. Well, did they miss that? Did they not miss this? And then you really lower their score and that affects them. So it's going to be a little bit of a process, but just keep that in mind that it should look strong, powerful, it should look like combative.
Look at good stances, whether it's backstance, sparring stance, those types of things. And then familiarize yourself with those weapon videos. Just watch them. You may not know them or be able to perform them, but just watch them, see what they're like, get the gist of them so that you'll continue to be a great judge at those tournaments.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:25:45] Speaker D: Great advice.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:25:46] Speaker E: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. And we'll see you all at spring nationals.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Yes, sir.
[00:25:52] Speaker D: Appreciate it.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Thanks for your time, sir.
[00:25:53] Speaker D: You're doing great work.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Thanks, sir.
[00:25:55] Speaker C: See, everybody, here's what's going on in Ata nation.
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Super excited to see all of these great things with the protec black belt weapons. Super cool. Don't forget, as part of the upcoming events to make sure you've registered for those weapons at spring nationals. Great opportunity to get those and learn the updates before they come to video on atamarshallarts.com. So make sure you check those out. And also, one question I didn't get to on the interview, but we did talk about kind of before the interview, is that currently there is no set like a hard date for like, hey, you can no longer do the old version of the form. You have to do the version 2.0. And it's going to be much like we've had in the past where protech forms have evolved and changed throughout their history with some tweaks and things. I know the way I learned the single songjibong form back originally when I first certified is not the way it's done now and then, certainly not the way the 2.0 is. So as judges like chief Master Kaminsky mentioned in the interview, our job is to look at what they're performing. Are they doing the strikes properly? Are these real combative strikes? Are they doing the lines right? Are they doing the techniques that they're doing? Are they doing them well, that's what we want to focus on most. And then as these forms are introduced and as more and more people get used to them, we'll see these as becoming the dominant thing. And who knows? Maybe there'll be a time in the future where they'll be the only version since we'll have videos recorded and everything. But with the color belt weapons, we had kind of almost a three year time frame of getting those out before we required them. And these black belt weapons updates are all still very new and still coming out. The last one won't be out until world championships, so just learn them, update, start teaching them this way if you're doing them. And then we'll be evolving forward with better and better techniques.
Ladies and gentlemen, I think that's going to wrap it up for today. Until next time, make sure you're taking action.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: Thanks for listening to another episode of the ATa Nation Podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share with your ATa family.
[00:28:37] Speaker E: Secret section.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: Hey guys, let me know what you really like about these new 2.0 versions of these black belt forms. Have you taken any of the seminars? Have you watched any of the video? What do you like? I'd love to feature that on the podcast. So let us know on Facebook, Instagram, wherever. We'd love to hear from you.
[00:28:57] Speaker D: I know.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: I really like the new single songship updates. I think they're really cool. I'm struggling teaching the double songship right now, and that's just because of old habits. I like the updates. I got to get used to them. It's taken me a little more time to get used to those. Then the single song is wrong. So what do you like with these updates?
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Let me know.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: Okay guys, later.
